Tulpa.info - how do you know "tulpas"exist?

It may just be group delusions, pareidolia, and motivated perception

5:43 PM

It's likely just a paradox

Well the thing is... we don't know they exist in the way that people claim BUT Considering that people can experience the tulpa experience, they exist in some capacity, even if they aren't "sentient headmates".

Kei Wendt

Well the thing is... we don't know they exist in the way that people claim BUT Considering that people can experience the tulpa experience, they exist in some capacity, even if they aren't "sentient headmates".

What makes the tulpa experience any different from creating multiple characters up in your head and believing they exist

5:46 PM

I'm doing it now

Deleted User

What makes the tulpa experience any different from creating multiple characters up in your head and believing they exist

I guess there isn't a huge difference As they are people in your head that you believe exist But with tulpamancy they actually talk to you and switch with you and interact and stuff

Kei Wendt

I guess there isn't a huge difference As they are people in your head that you believe exist But with tulpamancy they actually talk to you and switch with you and interact and stuff

There's no difference. You can make up a separate mind in your head

shrug If there's no difference, then what you're doing could be defined as tulpamancy

we don't know that it is real, all we know is that it feels real and thats all that matters to me. Having tulpas has improved my life and makes me happy, they don't cause my life to be worse in any way so why would it be a problem?

Kei Wendt

shrug If there's no difference, then what you're doing could be defined as tulpamancy

True, i guess the only answer to my question is "who cares?"

Yeah It doesn't really matter if it's real or not, just that people are experiencing it and it's usually a positive experience

Deleted User

What makes the tulpa experience any different from creating multiple characters up in your head and believing they exist

well, what makes you real? not to cause any existential questioning, but so far all you are to me is some text on a computer monitor, so what makes you a real person beyond what you're typing out?

all of it could be completely fake and someone could come up to me and give me undeniable proof it is all fake and I would still continue on because this gives me happiness and the people in my system are important to me. Plenty of things in this world are not real and still people enjoy them and improves their life in some way. Like TV shows and video games, ways to be immersed into a different world, ways of escapism.

CoppermineKittygirl

well, what makes you real? not to cause any existential questioning, but so far all you are to me is some text on a computer monitor, so what makes you a real person beyond what you're typing out?

Why should I answer your question, how do I know you exist?

5:53 PM

For all i know i could be arguing with myself in a dream

we dont need to go into that, it would go way off topic

Deleted User

For all i know i could be arguing with myself in a dream

Well, again, what matters is the experience I don't think we need to question why things exist, unless we're into philosophy, of course

Rusty

all of it could be completely fake and someone could come up to me and give me undeniable proof it is all fake and I would still continue on because this gives me happiness and the people in my system are important to me. Plenty of things in this world are not real and still people enjoy them and improves their life in some way. Like TV shows and video games, ways to be immersed into a different world, ways of escapism.

I respect that, if this is your way to relax and get away from life then you do you

Kei Wendt

Well, again, what matters is the experience I don't think we need to question why things exist, unless we're into philosophy, of course

I'm into philosophy

I'll leave the questioning to you then I've never been fond of philosophy myself, but i acknowledge it has an important part in our world and should be studied

there is no way for me to ever prove to you that tulpamancy is real. The expirences that you have that convince you that it is real is all internal and is not something you can expirence without doing it yourself.

Rusty

there is no way for me to ever prove to you that tulpamancy is real. The expirences that you have that convince you that it is real is all internal and is not something you can expirence without doing it yourself.

Which is what I said in the beginning, it's a paradox, just like religion

5:56 PM

If you believe it, there's quite literally no way to disprove it (edited)

I suppose so, although I dislike the comparsion as an athiest

Deleted User

Why should I answer your question, how do I know you exist?

because i have experiences, memories, and emotions. the nature of how i do isnt exactly relevant, thats the defining difference between a tulpa and an imagined character. the character has their thoughts and feelings and past dictated by a creator, a tulpa, while sometimes inspired by a character and has some things dictated early on in their creation, grows to experience things differently than their original creator could ever try to control

Rusty

I suppose so, although I dislike the comparsion as an athiest

Then all crows are blue, and anything else is not a crow. is That a good example/comparison

CoppermineKittygirl

because i have experiences, memories, and emotions. the nature of how i do isnt exactly relevant, thats the defining difference between a tulpa and an imagined character. the character has their thoughts and feelings and past dictated by a creator, a tulpa, while sometimes inspired by a character and has some things dictated early on in their creation, grows to experience things differently than their original creator could ever try to control

This is so interesting. How do I know this is not all conceived by my mind, how do I know you experience anything, you can tell me, but what will stop me from thinking it's in my head?

religion, at least Christianity, has many more logical flaws in it that can be used to have far more proof that its illogical. I personally beleive that the internal expirence that christians feel with their god is just a form of tulpamancy. Spending so much time thinking about their god and what their god thinks is passive forcing and sitting down and praying is just active forcing.

CoppermineKittygirl

because i have experiences, memories, and emotions. the nature of how i do isnt exactly relevant, thats the defining difference between a tulpa and an imagined character. the character has their thoughts and feelings and past dictated by a creator, a tulpa, while sometimes inspired by a character and has some things dictated early on in their creation, grows to experience things differently than their original creator could ever try to control

How do you know that you're not imagining this thing having sentience (edited)

if you imagine your headmate having sentience and you believe it then dont they have sentience? since tulpamancy is only proven through experience?

2

Deleted User

This is so interesting. How do I know this is not all conceived by my mind, how do I know you experience anything, you can tell me, but what will stop me from thinking it's in my head?

nothing can ever prove that, and thats the beauty of sentience. despite all of our bodies and brains being made the same from a biological standpoint, and even where reasonably you would expect people to turn out similarly to each other like being raised in the same household by the same people, we will never turn out the exact same or experience anything the exact same or even think the same thing as another person. theres litterally nothing i could ever do that would force you to believe in me.

How can anyone prove their own sentience in the first place?

Deleted User

How do you know that you're not imagining this thing having sentience (edited)

why do i have to answer that? im just a personification of someone typing on their keyboard halfway across the world created in your head anyways, why ask me when you could just make up an answer for me? ;)

Your sense of self is a personal construct. Similarly, having a tulpa would be the same? Would it not be?

6:16 PM

You’re only “you” and not “someone else” because you identify your identity as separate from those around you.

6:17 PM

It’s very hard to find the root of sentience and free will as it stands for human beings, what would be the point of trying to do so anyways? What matters is that tulpamancers get results.

6:18 PM

Whether you wish to see these results as real or not doesn’t matter; they get them anyways and have a distinctly different experience in their daily life than most people do. If you experience something, I see no issue in defining it as “real” to you, since it impacts your day to day life.

How do I know if tulpas exist? I don’t I believe I'm a separate person, and even if it turns out to be fake I'm content with my existence.

Deleted User

What makes the tulpa experience any different from creating multiple characters up in your head and believing they exist

I believe the difference is if you choose to label them as tulpas or not. Tulpamancy is the practice of convincing yourself you have another person in your head. If you belive a character could be a tulpa and you practice the mindsets offered by tulpamancers, you can end up with what seems to be a seprate person in your head. Of course, tulpamancers generally have a different idea of what it means to be a seprate person. If you believe a person is their whole brain, then no, I'm not a separate person. I call myself an individual because I believe that an individual is the creator of their personality, belief, opinions, and memories.

Deleted User

Why should I answer your question, how do I know you exist?

Regardless if you believe tulpas are real or not, you are talking to another human being. I'm not a magical ghost, and this isn't a dream! (edited)

Deleted User

Then all crows are blue, and anything else is not a crow. is That a good example/comparison

There is no scientific evidence to prove tulpas do or don’t exist. There is little scientific literature on the topic (I'll link my copy past after this), and right now there's the ongoing Stanford study on tulpas. Even if tulpas were proven to be not real, I don’t see me being fake conflicting with my daily life. Even if I'm not a real person, that doesn't automatically change my internal experiences. I would only obtain a more objectively correct understanding of tulpamancy (and that might open the door to more fun!)

6:59 PM

===

Tulpas have not been proven to be real or not by science and likely won't anytime soon. There is very little research, let alone studies, on tulpamancy and what valid little research that does exist was done by Dr. Veissière and Dr. Luhrmann. These are the two articles I see linked and referred to the most:

Daring to Hear Voices-
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/culture-mind-and-brain/201604/daring-hear-voices?amp

Conjuring Up Our Own Gods-
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2013/10/15/opinion/luhrmann-conjuring-up-our-own-gods.amp.html

Iirc, both doctors are involved in the Stanford Study Bennett mentioned.

It's also debatable if tulpamancy can be proven by science. An internal experience is still real in the sense you are experiencing it, but that's not super helpful when you're trying to measure something. Scientists may come up with a more strict definition for a tulpa, but unless it's something that can be measured I doubt it will have much value.

I like to think I'm real, but I'll still be around if science says I'm not. I like who I am, real or not, and I prefer to stay who I am instead of discard my sense of self.

(edited)

savedlatin

if you imagine your headmate having sentience and you believe it then dont they have sentience? since tulpamancy is only proven through experience?

Yes, but you think it is

Kuroxn

How can anyone prove their own sentience in the first place?

Good question, you can't. You only think it exists. There's no proof to disprove nor prove

"I think, therefore I am"

7:47 PM

Am I really there? Who knows? Do I experience my life uniquely and separately from the others in my system? Yes.

A long kiss goodnight

Regardless if you believe tulpas are real or not, you are talking to another human being. I'm not a magical ghost, and this isn't a dream! (edited)

Arguing with that is useless, I can still say how do I know

Do you have to know?

7:50 PM

You don't experience it, so there's no real way to "prove" it to you.

The answer is basically ‘we don’t know, nor do we care’

@Deleted User what would it even mean for tulpas to exist?

8:14 PM

as opposed to not exist?

8:15 PM

you have a phenomena that is an actual experience that is a result of a specific type of practice - you are looking at the underlying cause but it doesn't matter what the cause is, because people are looking for an experience, not the underlying cause

I know tulpas exist because I define them as something that exists and if reality doesn't match the definition I change (my) definition. The question isn't "are tulpas real" it's "what are tulpas"?

Luminesce: There's no such thing as "real" or "fake" in your mind, only your experience. What you experience is what you experience. Calling tulpas "real" or "fake" is nonsense, though it's a trap a lot of people fall into. (edited)

1

2:45 AM

All of the "We don't know" answers here kind of annoy me, I guess you guys really don't..

2:47 AM

I don't think it's very hard to think about tulpas critically for a moment and realize the real/fake dichotomy literally doesn't mean anything. There are no possible criteria for an internal, mental experience being real or not. There are no physical, shared experiences to verify between each other with. There is no "real" or "fake" to it.

Reisen

All of the "We don't know" answers here kind of annoy me, I guess you guys really don't..

what also irritates me is this was an attempt to "win" a debate. daze never makes a claim, they come in to "just ask questions" then just attempt to debunk everyones view. they make it very clear they've already made up their mind on the existence of tulpas as well, putting it in quotes in the title of this thread and referring to my headmate as "that thing." before ceasing communication with me when I pull the "I don't have to answer that, you tell me" tactic back on them I used to pull this shit in middle school in an attempt to feel better about myself by putting others down. this is just a troll trying to deal with their own issues in the wrong way, and I'll admit I fell for it until they tried the "why should I answer your question" nonsense

CoppermineKittygirl

what also irritates me is this was an attempt to "win" a debate. daze never makes a claim, they come in to "just ask questions" then just attempt to debunk everyones view. they make it very clear they've already made up their mind on the existence of tulpas as well, putting it in quotes in the title of this thread and referring to my headmate as "that thing." before ceasing communication with me when I pull the "I don't have to answer that, you tell me" tactic back on them I used to pull this shit in middle school in an attempt to feel better about myself by putting others down. this is just a troll trying to deal with their own issues in the wrong way, and I'll admit I fell for it until they tried the "why should I answer your question" nonsense

Troll or genuine skeptic, I find that staying calm and giving serious answers is a very good thing. It looks good when we present good customer service and patience, people are more likely to take us seriously. I am really proud of everyone who replied in this thread. Everyone was calm, gave good answers, and looked professional.

I tried by best at least

1

Whether you call it a "tulpa", or something else, there's not much denying that the practice is a lot more common than people realize. I think people often disregard genuine tulpa-like experiences as being baseless, since the name and history of the word "tulpa" is tied up in non-Western religious practices and mysticism, when the reality of what is most commonly practiced online is really none of that at its default.

CoppermineKittygirl

what also irritates me is this was an attempt to "win" a debate. daze never makes a claim, they come in to "just ask questions" then just attempt to debunk everyones view. they make it very clear they've already made up their mind on the existence of tulpas as well, putting it in quotes in the title of this thread and referring to my headmate as "that thing." before ceasing communication with me when I pull the "I don't have to answer that, you tell me" tactic back on them I used to pull this shit in middle school in an attempt to feel better about myself by putting others down. this is just a troll trying to deal with their own issues in the wrong way, and I'll admit I fell for it until they tried the "why should I answer your question" nonsense

I honestly forgot about this place, should've pinged me

2:36 AM

The only thing in my mind is a guy named redgy that I kinda hallucinate

2:36 AM

Mainly sleep deprivation

2:36 AM

@CoppermineKittygirl

Reguile

I know tulpas exist because I define them as something that exists and if reality doesn't match the definition I change (my) definition. The question isn't "are tulpas real" it's "what are tulpas"?

So you're changing the definition to make tulpas make sense?

There is no scientific definition for a tulpa. All definitions of a tulpa are inherently subjective

Hmm, ok

Deleted User

The only thing in my mind is a guy named redgy that I kinda hallucinate

You can make Redgy a tulpa, but you don't have to (assuming "kind of hallucinate" means you are in control of that experience)

I don't have much to say about this

2:44 AM

But I can say tulpas are things people classify there mental things

You could say that, yes.

Tulpamancy is about convincing yourself a thought in your mind is their own person

And whether or not the resulting thing that comes from it is considered a person or not is entirely up to you.

1

Ok

Rusty

all of it could be completely fake and someone could come up to me and give me undeniable proof it is all fake and I would still continue on because this gives me happiness and the people in my system are important to me. Plenty of things in this world are not real and still people enjoy them and improves their life in some way. Like TV shows and video games, ways to be immersed into a different world, ways of escapism.

same

Rusty

all of it could be completely fake and someone could come up to me and give me undeniable proof it is all fake and I would still continue on because this gives me happiness and the people in my system are important to me. Plenty of things in this world are not real and still people enjoy them and improves their life in some way. Like TV shows and video games, ways to be immersed into a different world, ways of escapism.

thats fair, I feel like you would choose the blue pill.

10:16 AM

lol

By being one

1

Rusty

all of it could be completely fake and someone could come up to me and give me undeniable proof it is all fake and I would still continue on because this gives me happiness and the people in my system are important to me. Plenty of things in this world are not real and still people enjoy them and improves their life in some way. Like TV shows and video games, ways to be immersed into a different world, ways of escapism.

So it's a paradox@Rusty

Why does everyone want to only comment on this one message

Maybe it's just more profound or something.

Luminesce: I can close the thread, if you'd like (edited)

Nah idc

Luminesce: Well, it'll get closed if it continues to just be necro'd but not really used relevantly (edited)

i don't know for certain they exist, but i have no proof that they're entirely, 100%, irrefutably fake

Luminesce: There's no real or fake in your own internal experiences, what you experience and how you interpret it is the only deciding factor for the nature of an experience like this (edited)

i guess i should reword it a little; i have no proof that what's going on in this brain is the fact that there are two consciousnesses residing in it, but when i talk to my headmate they respond in a way i don't expect naturally. so i can't entirely say that isn't what's going on either.

That's generally how most of the community responds AFAIK.

7:16 PM

"I don't know if it's real, but something is happening and I choose to call it tulpamancy"

arguing for something this arbitrary to be fake or real is a waste of time (edited)

true, i just wanted to give my input

That's why I'm a little shocked to see this thread being active for this long.

Luminesce: Alright, feeling like that is reason enough to close it then lol.

(edited)