Tulpa.info - Do you visualize with your eyes open, or closed?

Tewi: I'm sure most people visualize with their eyes closed, and we do too, but the topic's actually slightly more interesting for us than that. For whatever reason, our visual clarity actually improves when we keep our eyes open while doing it. However, we do still visualize with our eyes closed because it's easier to focus like that. Keeping our eyes open is at least a little distracting for us, not as immersive. But it's really bizarre how our visual clarity just improves by like 10% instantly by doing it with our eyes open - I wonder if anyone else experiences that? And, of course, some people just prefer that by default. * Side note, if this all sounded like nonsense to you, you may want to google "Aphantasia" (edited)

When we visualize each other, which is not that often anymore, we personally always visualize imposing over reality. When visualizing other stuff its not that simple, if i actively enter visualization mode with the intention to visualize i close my eyes, however if Im abstracted in my mind thinking about whatever and visualize something its usually with my eyes open, although im not really aware of what im actually seeing. (edited)

The only time I ever visualize with my eyes closed is when i am daydreaming while waiting to fall asleep in bed. The majority of the time I am going on a walk or riding a bike. I very rarely just have a time set up where I just sit there with my eyes closed imagining stuff.

I prefer open. I think it’s easier for us

We can naturally visualize either way. We normally do so with opened eyes, however if meditating or concentrating really hard on visualizing something difficult to imagine, we close our eyes.

when after whole life of having aphantasia i started doing progress in training my mind’s eye i did notice as well that i could visualise more easily with eyes open and i thought that maybe it’s just me. i think that at least some cases of aphantasia might be due to eye and eyelid muscle tension, to me ability to visualise and eye muscle tension are very correlated i also noticed that closing eyes makes some of my eyelid muscles tense. When i relax all my eye muscles completely ( if i manage to do it!) my eyes are half open and that’s when l i get the best results, too

Leiko

when after whole life of having aphantasia i started doing progress in training my mind’s eye i did notice as well that i could visualise more easily with eyes open and i thought that maybe it’s just me. i think that at least some cases of aphantasia might be due to eye and eyelid muscle tension, to me ability to visualise and eye muscle tension are very correlated i also noticed that closing eyes makes some of my eyelid muscles tense. When i relax all my eye muscles completely ( if i manage to do it!) my eyes are half open and that’s when l i get the best results, too

i got a very good image mindtraining , dm me for it

I can manage to do it open eyed and actually visualize stuff over what i see, and it's very cool

Reisen

Tewi: I'm sure most people visualize with their eyes closed, and we do too, but the topic's actually slightly more interesting for us than that. For whatever reason, our visual clarity actually improves when we keep our eyes open while doing it. However, we do still visualize with our eyes closed because it's easier to focus like that. Keeping our eyes open is at least a little distracting for us, not as immersive. But it's really bizarre how our visual clarity just improves by like 10% instantly by doing it with our eyes open - I wonder if anyone else experiences that? And, of course, some people just prefer that by default. * Side note, if this all sounded like nonsense to you, you may want to google "Aphantasia" (edited)

Are you talking about like in general or tulpas specifically? Because I'd say hyperphantasia

6:45 PM

I have hyperphantasia myself and I can picture pretty much anything with my eyes open. I can look at my hand and imagine an apple, visual texture and lighting sometimes.

Daen [LeviticusKillgore]

I have hyperphantasia myself and I can picture pretty much anything with my eyes open. I can look at my hand and imagine an apple, visual texture and lighting sometimes.

I dont think thats hyperphantasia...

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

I dont think thats hyperphantasia...

But it is?

7:19 PM

At least it's one part of it

Can you 1:1 visualize some scenario as crisply as reality at the same time?

7:27 PM

Almost everyone can look at their hand ad visualize an apple. And the "visual texture and lighting sometimes" sounds average to me.

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

Almost everyone can look at their hand ad visualize an apple. And the "visual texture and lighting sometimes" sounds average to me.

You'd be surprised. Otherwise isn't it just daydreaming? That you're talking about?

1:05 AM

I can also daydream very vividly

Tewi: Just asking how you visualize, tulpas involved or not. That doesn't really change anything. (edited)

I have hyperphantasia myself and I can picture pretty much anything with my eyes open. I can look at my hand and imagine an apple, visual texture and lighting sometimes.

@Daen [LeviticusKillgore] - jump if you can imagine the apple as if it was in your hand as in in your vision rathen than in your mind’s eye, people would call it visual imposition or prophantasia in certain communities. jealous nonetheless

KiTTiKaTTy( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧

I have hyperphantasia myself and I can picture pretty much anything with my eyes open. I can look at my hand and imagine an apple, visual texture and lighting sometimes.

@Daen [LeviticusKillgore] - jump if you can imagine the apple as if it was in your hand as in in your vision rathen than in your mind’s eye, people would call it visual imposition or prophantasia in certain communities. jealous nonetheless

Its still not controlled hallucination, is just to impose imagination on the real world.

We actually almost always visualize with our eyes open. Trying to visualize with our eyes closed for some reason both lowers quality and destroys what little ability to focus we have nowadays.

I do a bit of both, though the quality of my visualization tends to vary quite a bit as well.

i usually tend to visualize better with my eyes open, for some reason i cant focus on a visualization at all with them closed

Reisen

Tewi: I'm sure most people visualize with their eyes closed, and we do too, but the topic's actually slightly more interesting for us than that. For whatever reason, our visual clarity actually improves when we keep our eyes open while doing it. However, we do still visualize with our eyes closed because it's easier to focus like that. Keeping our eyes open is at least a little distracting for us, not as immersive. But it's really bizarre how our visual clarity just improves by like 10% instantly by doing it with our eyes open - I wonder if anyone else experiences that? And, of course, some people just prefer that by default. * Side note, if this all sounded like nonsense to you, you may want to google "Aphantasia" (edited)

agreed though, i have this experience aswell

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

Its still not controlled hallucination, is just to impose imagination on the real world.

if you end up seeing it, it is a controlled hallucination

berockly (TTG)

i usually tend to visualize better with my eyes open, for some reason i cant focus on a visualization at all with them closed

btw i dont mean imposition

4:49 PM

i visualize with my eyes open mostly

berockly (TTG)

if you end up seeing it, it is a controlled hallucination

I dont see it, i imagine over reality

5:26 PM

i visualize imposed on reality

5:26 PM

like a layer, there is a clear separation

Then there is a difference between imposition and prophantasia afterall

5:39 PM

Prophantasia is usually developed by manipulating the "visual snow" in your vision and then going from there

anyways, that implies that there is a difference between closed eye, open eye, imposed, and projected visualization

5:59 PM

bennett hasnt spoken here yet :squint:

Tewi: Open-eye and closed-eye visualization are exactly the same thing. Though we (tulpas in this system) naturally exist visualized in a sort of in-between space, like visualization of the space around us, normally to the right side of the body's head. And then imposition is a step further still, technically it's visualization as well, but you train it to be bundled with your sensory perception so (while differentiable) it's melded with what you actually see(/feel etc.) Even though we naturally exist "visualized around the body", it doesn't feel the same as imposition to us. Imposition is mixed with reality; wonderland-level visualization is imagination-immersed and fully separate; and "visualization around the body" is the same but without that internal immersion, I suppose. Well, that's a lot more complicated than what the topic was about. (edited)

Reisen

Tewi: Open-eye and closed-eye visualization are exactly the same thing. Though we (tulpas in this system) naturally exist visualized in a sort of in-between space, like visualization of the space around us, normally to the right side of the body's head. And then imposition is a step further still, technically it's visualization as well, but you train it to be bundled with your sensory perception so (while differentiable) it's melded with what you actually see(/feel etc.) Even though we naturally exist "visualized around the body", it doesn't feel the same as imposition to us. Imposition is mixed with reality; wonderland-level visualization is imagination-immersed and fully separate; and "visualization around the body" is the same but without that internal immersion, I suppose. Well, that's a lot more complicated than what the topic was about. (edited)

well yeah, sorry, i meant by the difference of doing it with eyes open and closed

berockly (TTG)

Then there is a difference between imposition and prophantasia afterall

I dont think what i said has anything to do with any of those...

5:14 PM

I dont know exactly whats unclear: I imagine objects and imagine their presence arround in the real world, thats it, plain imagination, no seeing or hallucination or anything like that. Im pretty sure almost anyone that can imagine normally can do this...

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

I dont know exactly whats unclear: I imagine objects and imagine their presence arround in the real world, thats it, plain imagination, no seeing or hallucination or anything like that. Im pretty sure almost anyone that can imagine normally can do this...

Well yeah,im just saying that that means there is a difference between imposition and prophantasia

Hmm, I envision things better with my eyes closed, but can do so either way

berockly (TTG)

Prophantasia is usually developed by manipulating the "visual snow" in your vision and then going from there

There's no rule about how prophantasia is developed, it's not different from imposition, it's just a term coined by someone else

Yuka

There's no rule about how prophantasia is developed, it's not different from imposition, it's just a term coined by someone else

How real-like can imposition get?

Can be as realistic as reality, though probably most people don't get that far even if they're good at it otherwise

Yuka

Can be as realistic as reality, though probably most people don't get that far even if they're good at it otherwise

I can definitely see silhouettes in the darkness and simple shapes in clear walls (really dimly), i never considered that imposition but apparently it kinda is the same... Really interesting. (I have no control over the silhouettes or shapes, they do whatever they want.)

If you can't control it I'm not sure it counts as imposition

I can to a certain degree control the size and shape, but after that it will evolve randomly. I also control the first input. That meaning: I want to see a circle, the cricle appears, seconds later it becomes bigger, then an ellipse, then the ellipse gets extruded into a cilinder...

7:08 PM

Thats an actual example

7:11 PM

(that is, first i see an ellipse and then the image of the ellipse is just a circle slanted into the 3rd dimension and that circle gets extruded)

7:12 PM

I dont know if it counts as imposition (and dont care much) but its definitely interesting nontheless (edited)

Yuka

There's no rule about how prophantasia is developed, it's not different from imposition, it's just a term coined by someone else

But it is different imo

Why is it?

Prophantasia is seen

1

And imposition too

Prophantasia and imposition are the same thing, right? (edited)

Doesnt that make it a controlled hallucination than?

Thats what imposition is

berockly (TTG)

if you end up seeing it, it is a controlled hallucination

@Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し) your response to tHis is the only thing that led me to the conclusion that they are different

I wasnt talking about imposition, i was talking about imagining superposed in reality. (edited)

Ah

Which is what i do.

berockly (TTG)

But it is different imo

Can you explain what you mean tho?

I superimpose, not very well, but its what i do

Thats what i was talking about then

Wait, the difference is imposition can be any sense and prophantasia was only coined for visual I tend to forget that bit But I don't think that's what you meant

Yuka

Wait, the difference is imposition can be any sense and prophantasia was only coined for visual I tend to forget that bit But I don't think that's what you meant

When you hear someone calling and you are alone :S

I meant there is a difference between superimposition and imposition (basically, ig)

Yuka

Wait, the difference is imposition can be any sense and prophantasia was only coined for visual I tend to forget that bit But I don't think that's what you meant

No, they just confused imposition with superposing imagination over reality

1

What’s imposition vs superimposition?

Superposition

Its a very bad choice of words, thats what it is

Yes, but its an art term

If you can project a visual irl like this, you can call it imposition or prophantasia

superposing imagination is just that, imagining over reality

Yuka

If you can project a visual irl like this, you can call it imposition or prophantasia

I can do that, but i DONT "see it"

7:24 PM

I just imagine it over reality

So superimposition is visualizing something on top of reality without actually seeing it?

There is a clear layer of separation

superimposed /ˌso͞op(ə)rəmˈpōzd/ adjective placed or laid over something else, typically so that both things are still evident. "superimposed images of frantically swarming insects"

Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)

I just imagine it over reality

People have called that overlay visualization

Yuka

People have called that overlay visualization

That sounds like an accurate term

Superimposition isn't an established term, Shib is just trying to find a way to describe what they do

Oragamal

So superimposition is visualizing something on top of reality without actually seeing it?

Is this it, though?

But its an accurate term according to the Definition

Yuka

Superimposition isn't an established term, Shib is just trying to find a way to describe what they do

Everyone calling me shiba now! I think i should go back to destin lol

Pick a name!

berockly (TTG)

Pick a name!

NEVER!

I call people according to their username, and I think you guys said it's not always Destin talking so idek who I'm replying to

Yuka

I call people according to their username, and I think you guys said it's not always Destin talking so idek who I'm replying to

Hehehe, its not always destin, but you may call us all destin, we dont want to get the distinction, thats why we dont use multiple accounts

Yuka

I call people according to their username, and I think you guys said it's not always Destin talking so idek who I'm replying to

Its okey, it didnt bother me

Okay

doeth dupper work here?