Tulpa.info - Aphantasia

I am new. I initially joined this discord due to seeing it on the forum. I was reading a guide and was curious about the visualization bit. I have aphantasia---unfortunately. It frustrates me on a level I cannot explain, especially due to the practices I am involved with. That being said, if I do want to see the new tulpa once they are sentient and ready, how exactly would I go about it? Is it even possible for someone like me? I truly do wish I wasn't stuck with this defect; along with everything else, it also impacts memory. Anyway, that is not important to the question asked. How do I go about actually having the full experience of interaction?

So, people with aphantasia can make tulpas and interact with them without visualizing. Basically they just talk to eachother in mindvoice/thoughts, and do things like switching.

6:55 PM

If you want to learn to visualize, you may be able to do so, there are various resources online

Luminesce: "Aphantasia" is sort of a spectrum, or rather, some people truly cannot visualize ever, while others theoretically could train the mental-muscle of visualization over time to achieve some results (edited)

6:56 PM

That said, tulpamancy should be possible with aphantasia, but it'll look pretty different from what you normally see talked about

6:57 PM

If you also can't imagine vocal words, only thought, then that's basically the equivalent of what your tulpamancy experience will look like as well - you could develop a tulpa who you can share thought-communication with (edited)

6:57 PM

Whatever form your thoughts can take, that's what a tulpa could participate in as well

6:58 PM

As for possession/switching, there's no real precedent, so I won't make any promises, but I imagine it could be possible.

7:00 PM

(If you can imagine voice, then you can just have the traditional tulpamancy experience, but without the visualization part)

Dumping resources here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBYf8Ub_GxZFvSZP7w9OSxmulJMrfcNbk https://youtu.be/9guHNBi_mQk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Z88TSKejw Image streaming: https://youtu.be/3F2qjtwcMhA http://www.winwenger.com/imstream.htm http://www.winwenger.com/isbackup.htm A subreddit with guides https://www.reddit.com/r/CureAphantasia/

Reisen

Luminesce: "Aphantasia" is sort of a spectrum, or rather, some people truly cannot visualize ever, while others theoretically could train the mental-muscle of visualization over time to achieve some results (edited)

I am aware of it being a spectrum, and it is not just about visualization--or seeing through the mind's eye. I have multi-sensory issues. Some can visualize things if they focus more than others---seeing a very light and fleeting image. I am on the end of the spectrum where I only see a sheet of black.

Reisen

If you also can't imagine vocal words, only thought, then that's basically the equivalent of what your tulpamancy experience will look like as well - you could develop a tulpa who you can share thought-communication with (edited)

What exactly is imagining words? Just simple thought? I have an inner voice.

Luminesce: What about imagining voice? For example, I can play music I'm familiar with in my head fairly clearly (which is somewhat above average ability) (edited)

Reisen

Luminesce: What about imagining voice? For example, I can play music I'm familiar with in my head fairly clearly (which is somewhat above average ability) (edited)

What is that like? Having a song stuck in your head?

Luminesce: With pure aphantasia, thought is simply thought, the meaning of words and so on. Without, it's an actual mentally-audible component (edited)

7:04 PM

I'm unclear on what it's like to have a song stuck in your head with pure aphantasia-that-includes-auditory, or if that can even happen still

7:04 PM

Can you confidently say that songs in your head, if focused on, can be heard and experienced clearly akin to hearing them IRL?

7:04 PM

Or is it a completely different, just thought-like experience

Reisen

Can you confidently say that songs in your head, if focused on, can be heard and experienced clearly akin to hearing them IRL?

No. That is not exactly what happens.

Reisen

Or is it a completely different, just thought-like experience

Yes, if I am thinking of the lyrics I suppose. Or an instrumental piece.

Luminesce: (I've always had good imagined auditory sense, so I'm unclear on if for others it's not a comparable experience) (edited)

7:05 PM

Hmm, well, I suppose it's not important either way

7:06 PM

Whatever the experience of "communicating with yourself" is in your head, that's what a tulpa would be capable of participating with you in as well.

Very well.

Luminesce: To my knowledge, the feeling of independence and autonomy of a tulpa is still achievable with aphantasia. (edited)

7:06 PM

Though it may be trickier to actually develop, of course

Reisen

Though it may be trickier to actually develop, of course

Unfortunately.

Luminesce: You'll likely need to forge your own path a little, or interpret guides/advice into what makes sense to you (edited)

7:07 PM

But a lot of us would say forging your own path in tulpamancy is optimal :P

Reisen

Luminesce: You'll likely need to forge your own path a little, or interpret guides/advice into what makes sense to you (edited)

I will try my best. I tend to get rather frustrated when aphantasia and 'the lack' of normal function is involved---much too frustrated to be quite frank. However, it is expected due to the certain issues I am stuck with. Anyhow, I appreciate the responses to my question. Thank you.

Luminesce: I get immensely frustrated when people talk about easily doing things I'm struggling with, so I get it (edited)

Yuka

Dumping resources here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBYf8Ub_GxZFvSZP7w9OSxmulJMrfcNbk https://youtu.be/9guHNBi_mQk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Z88TSKejw Image streaming: https://youtu.be/3F2qjtwcMhA http://www.winwenger.com/imstream.htm http://www.winwenger.com/isbackup.htm A subreddit with guides https://www.reddit.com/r/CureAphantasia/

I appreciate it. I have been trying to work on image streaming. It is hard to tell how long---I am not good with keeping up with linear time frames.

Luminesce: While it's a nice ability to have, there's a biiit too little emphasis on how your experience is your experience, and so your expectations can always be reasonably built on what you already know. (edited)

7:12 PM

With tulpamancy effectively being "A feeling of independent thought with a separate perspective on things from you" (perspective as in ideas/thinking process, not as in you literally grew a second brain to experience life separately from you)

7:12 PM

I'm sure I could give better explanations if I shared your experience, of course

7:13 PM

But I'm just working off of the handful of people with aphantasia I've talked to about their experiences

Reisen

With tulpamancy effectively being "A feeling of independent thought with a separate perspective on things from you" (perspective as in ideas/thinking process, not as in you literally grew a second brain to experience life separately from you)

Yes. Growing a second brain isn't...feasible. I always saw it as split consciousness. Even before immersing myself in the study.

7:15 PM

But I will figure it all out. This was just a question I had while getting to that part of the guide.

Luminesce: You're going to struggle with following most guides I think, they tend to be very visualization focused. Which I would compare to say, shaping clay - you can do it with your eyes closed, but the instructions you'll receive will constantly reference the visual component (edited)

7:16 PM

Convert those instructions as best you can (or just go about tulpamancy on your own, which honestly works fine) into what makes sense to you

Reisen

Luminesce: You're going to struggle with following most guides I think, they tend to be very visualization focused. Which I would compare to say, shaping clay - you can do it with your eyes closed, but the instructions you'll receive will constantly reference the visual component (edited)

That is what I am looking at now. I will show you.

7:17 PM

Luminesce: Honestly I personally am not a fan of tulpamancy guides in the first place (edited)

7:17 PM

Yeah, form is only partially relevant for you.

Reisen

Luminesce: Honestly I personally am not a fan of tulpamancy guides in the first place (edited)

I see. Did you just jump into it then?

Luminesce: You'll only know their form in knowing, rather than in the active practice of visualization. Visualization clarity can also normally be improved, so it gets talked about being practiced a lot. For you though, just having something in mind like say from reference pictures is about the extent of the experience. (edited)

لمعرفة.

I see. Did you just jump into it then?

I created my tulpas naturally on accident, two years before the forum was founded lol. (edited)

Reisen

Luminesce: You'll only know their form in knowing, rather than in the active practice of visualization. Visualization clarity can also normally be improved, so it gets talked about being practiced a lot. For you though, just having something in mind like say from reference pictures is about the extent of the experience. (edited)

I figured. How vexatious for me. But ah well. It is always been that way.

Reisen

I created my tulpas naturally on accident, two years before the forum was founded lol. (edited)

I see then. Fair enough.

Luminesce: Just with lots of thinking about the characters (that my tulpas are based on), thinking about how they'd think and act and all that. (edited)

7:19 PM

Eventually they pretty much existed as entities in my mind, and I acknowledged them as "Sentient imaginary friends, or something" - and ended up having the exact experiences and conclusions the tulpamancy community was coming to themselves lol. (edited)

That is quite fortunate then.

7:22 PM

I have never done such things. I remember trying to have some sort of friend due to terrible loneliness, but it did not work out unfortunately.

7:23 PM

The portion in the guide that mentions motivation will be tricky for me. Aphantasia and Anhedonia is not the best pairing, amongst other things.

7:24 PM

But this experience would be rather beneficial---not for just me but the tulpa. If I were to figure anything out.

Luminesce: Oof, dealing with anhedonia myself, it's crippled me most my life. I'm going to be trying ketamine soon as it's been shown in studies to boost neuroplasticity and help reform connections in the brain (which I looked into as typical antidepressants haven't affected me whatsoever) - but, that's off topic lol. (edited)

7:25 PM

Well, my tulpas are the most cherished thing in my life, so to say they've helped is an understatement - but I can't in good conscience make promises to you about what your experience will be like.

7:26 PM

You'll probably just have to find out on your own. (And if you see any results, report back! So people like me can better help people like you, in the future)

Reisen

Luminesce: Oof, dealing with anhedonia myself, it's crippled me most my life. I'm going to be trying ketamine soon as it's been shown in studies to boost neuroplasticity and help reform connections in the brain (which I looked into as typical antidepressants haven't affected me whatsoever) - but, that's off topic lol. (edited)

Ah. It is good that it is available to you. I am terribly treatment resistant myself.

Reisen

You'll probably just have to find out on your own. (And if you see any results, report back! So people like me can better help people like you, in the future)

Fair enough. Will do.

I actually do not know how to begin or go about this even after reading the guides and such. Perhaps I should leave it be.

لمعرفة.

I actually do not know how to begin or go about this even after reading the guides and such. Perhaps I should leave it be.

You mean how to begin with a tulpa?

Yuka

You mean how to begin with a tulpa?

Yes. I know how other people can begin, but not me. In truth, I am not sure any of this even applies. Using the logic most people have, I would have already been involved with Tulpa companions due to being a writer and thinking about/putting effort into characters constantly. But that did not happen, evidently. I cannot visualize either. So like a lot of other things, I doubt I could accomplish this.

11:10 PM

That being said, I suppose that it is what it is.

All you have to do is think of what kind of person you want to be your tulpa and when you're ready, start talking to them

Using the logic most people have, I would have already been involved with Tulpa companions due to being a writer and thinking about/putting effort into characters constantly. But that did not happen, evidently.

Luminesce: The core process that starts to create a tulpa is the expectation and belief that there is a separate person in your mind - writers and such only stumble into tulpas when they make a habit of imagining in-depth how their characters would think and act, and especially if they take up the habit of chatting/interacting with their character (edited)

11:33 PM

Basically, your brain starts to shape the experience because of that expectation/belief

11:34 PM

And a tulpa will start to sound/feel more independent from you over time, as you keep up the interacting with them (forcing) while holding the intent for them to be/belief that they are a separate person from you

11:35 PM

But yes, as I said, you'll need to effectively convert all the instructions you read to make sense to you. I think comparing it to a tutorial on sculpting, but with your eyes closed, is pretty apt

11:35 PM

You might not be able to see what you're sculpting, but you'll still feel it

11:36 PM

(But if this all seems not worth the effort to you, it's okay to not, I'm just providing information the best I can)

https://community.tulpa.info/topic/15753-reguiles-grounded-tulpamancy-guide/

Reguile's Grounded Tulpamancy Guide.

https://tulpa.org/Guide/ViewGuide/1 What is tulpamancy? Why does it exist? Most people think of themselves as the singular actor within their body. You choose to lift your arm, and up your arm goes. You choose to drop your arm and it falls. However, the connection between the things you do and th...

8:21 PM

8:22 PM

you could say i have aphantasia, or at least such poor visualization skills that i see an image pop up just a few times a year that i might as well have it, and the screenshot is basically the only guide i needed (edited)

8:23 PM

you just need to talk and wait for a response like the guide says, and take that as your tulpa speaking to you, and just keep doing that

8:25 PM

visualization skills arent needed at all and talking to each other and doing stuff together is plenty

8:29 PM

the answers will be stuff that is obvious and dont have any thought behind them, they will contradict themselves, repeat your own thoughts sometimes etc, but thats just a part of the process and they will grow to be more than that over time, it took us only a few days to talk to each other in complete sentences, even though we didnt have much to talk about. The only thing you need is to just not think and take answers as them (but filtering out negative intrusive thoughts) and the rest will come naturally

Reisen

You might not be able to see what you're sculpting, but you'll still feel it

I don't know. Regardless, I spent the entire day yesterday making an incredibly detailed sheet so that the foundation is written down.

1:36 PM

I will share something I just commented on a video I watched. Of course, this will be spoilered due to certain triggering things being mentioned. Just ignore that.The point is the slight description of what my aphantasia is actually like so that you have an idea. (edited)

1:36 PM

SPOILER

aapeli 🟣🥫🥔 ae

the answers will be stuff that is obvious and dont have any thought behind them, they will contradict themselves, repeat your own thoughts sometimes etc, but thats just a part of the process and they will grow to be more than that over time, it took us only a few days to talk to each other in complete sentences, even though we didnt have much to talk about. The only thing you need is to just not think and take answers as them (but filtering out negative intrusive thoughts) and the rest will come naturally

A few days? That is interesting and oddly fast.

لمعرفة.

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Luminesce: I don't know how old you are, but as someone going through figuring out how to live with anhedonia myself for the last 15 years (since I was 12), after trying all the recommended stuff to no effect as well and doing research (reading studies) on my own, ketamine is the final answer I've come to (well, and psilocybin which while different has the same neuroplasticity effect) I really recommend looking into ketamine treatment since you seem depressed even, while I'm doing it just to overcome my lack of feeling good when accomplishing things (which as best I can tell is the root of my motivation issues) (edited)

Reisen

Luminesce: I don't know how old you are, but as someone going through figuring out how to live with anhedonia myself for the last 15 years (since I was 12), after trying all the recommended stuff to no effect as well and doing research (reading studies) on my own, ketamine is the final answer I've come to (well, and psilocybin which while different has the same neuroplasticity effect) I really recommend looking into ketamine treatment since you seem depressed even, while I'm doing it just to overcome my lack of feeling good when accomplishing things (which as best I can tell is the root of my motivation issues) (edited)

Seems I am right with you. I looked into it awhile ago, I am not able to get ahold of it. Ah yes, I have many…severe issues that would do best without mention. Regardless of that, I was just sharing the type of Aphantasia I have. Of course, I am still working on things to the best of my ability, even though I presume that I will be working 10x as hard not to get anywhere near any of you in terms of this. It is how it always is.

1:58 PM

That being said, I will still do it.

Luminesce: It's an off-topic suggestion for the thread, but I'm primarily here to help people, and I happen to know your specific problem isn't likely to have help offered for it, given personal experience. Giving potentially life-changing advice is a pretty big deal (edited)

I see then. I have read the studies for Ketamine and psilocybin. It simply isn’t available. I have only been able to get ahold of psilocybin once, and it was not through medical means. I suppose that being in isolation does not help these matters. I appreciate the advice and your responses in general. I can tell that you do wish to help others when you can, and in the modern era, that can be a rare thing.

Hello A few words from a pure aphantasiac. I've had a tulpa for more than 10 years now and even if we communicate in raw thoughts only we still interact through imposition (presence and touch mostly). I'd like to have more to give help but it's mostly my tulpa who did everything for me on that front. But most of our experience progress go by being very aware of yourself and be open to how you feel. I guess plurality is still difficult as an aphatasiac but you can get stuff. With years I've been more sensitive to how it feels like to imagine as an aphatasiac. We tried image streaming from one headmate to another so that I could receive flashes of pictures but it was only a handful of times. (edited)

2

Greetings. Ah I see then. That is interesting.